A Critical Cinema 2: Interviews with Independent Filmmakers

No. I think that one of the reasons why we couldn't make films or didn't think of making films was that we felt that it was an enormously expensive venture. At that time, I didn't even have the money to buy canvas. I'd go to army surplus shops and get that canvas that's rolled up. During that period, I felt that getting a camera to do a film was unrealistic.

MacDonald: Grapefruit

includes three tiny descriptions of conceptual film projects that are identified as excerpts from "Six Film Scripts by Yoko Ono." Were there others, or was the indication that there were six scripts a conceptual joke?

Ono:

No, there were six at first; then later there were others. At the time I wrote those scripts, I sent most of them to Jonas Mekas, to document them. Actually, that's why I have copies of them now.

MacDonald:

There seems to be confusion about the names and numbers of the films on the

Fluxfilm Program,

and about who did them. I assume you made the two slow-motion films,

Eyeblink

and

Match,

and the first film about buttocks,

No. 4

.

Ono:

Those are mine, yes.

MacDonald:

Did people collaborate in making those films, or did everybody work individually and then just put the films onto those two Fluxus reels?

Ono:

One day George [Maciunas] called me and said he's got the use of a high-speed camera and it's a good opportunity, so just come over [to Peter Moore's apartment on East 36th Street] and make some films. So I went there, and the high-speed camera was set up and he said, "Give me some ideas! Think of some ideas for films!" There weren't many people around, at the beginning just George and . . .

MacDonald:

Peter Moore is credited on a lot of the slow-motion films.

Ono:

Yeah, Peter Moore was there, and Barbara Moore came too. And other people were coming inI forget who they werebut not many. When I arrived, I was the only person there, outside of George. I don't know how George managed to get the high-speed camera. I don't think he paid for it. But it was the kind of opportunity that if you can get it, you grab it. So I'm there, and I got the idea of

Match

and

Eyeblink

and we shot these.

Eyeblink

didn't come out too well. It was my eye, and I didn't like my eye.

MacDonald:

I like that film a lot. Framed the way it is, the eye becomes erotic; it's suggestive of body parts normally considered more erotic.

Ono:

The one of those high-speed films I liked best was one you didn't mention:

Smoking

.

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MacDonald:

The one by Joe Jones.

Ono:

Yes. I thought that one was amazing, so beautiful; it was like frozen smoke.

MacDonald:

There's a film on that reel called

Disappearing Music for Face

 . . .

Ono:

Chieko Shiomi's film, yeah.

MacDonald:

I understand you were involved in that one too.

Ono:

Well, that was my smile. That was me. What happened was that Chieko Shiomi was in Japan at the time. She was coming here often; it wasn't like she was stationed in Japan all the time, but at the time I think she had just left to go to Japan. Then this high-speed camera idea came up, and when George was saying, ''Quick, quick, ideas," I said, "Well, how about

smile

"; and he said, "No, that you can't do, think of something else." "But," I said, "Smile is a very important one. I really want to do it," because I always had that idea, but George keeps saying, "No you can't do that one." Finally, he said, "Well, OK, actually I wanted to save that for Chieko Shiomi because she had the same idea. But I will let you perform." So that's me smiling. Later I found out that her concept was totally different from what I wanted to do. Chieko Shiomi's idea is beautiful; she catches the

disappearance

of a smile. At the time I didn't know what her title was.

MacDonald:

I assume

No. 4

was shot at a different time.

Ono:

Yes. At the time I was living at 1 West 100th Street. It was shot in my apartment. My then husband Tony Cox and Jeff Perkins helped.

MacDonald:

The long version of the buttocks film,

No. 4 (Bottoms),

is still amazing.

Ono:

I think that film had a social impact at the time because of what was going on in the world and also because of what was going on in the film world. It's a pretty interesting film really.

Do you know the statement I wrote about taking any film and burying it underground for fifty years [See

Grapefruit

(New York: Simon and Schuster/Touchstone, 1971), Section 9, "On Film No. 4," paragraph 3, and "On Film No. 5 and Two Virgins," paragraph 2]? It's like wine. Any film, any cheap film, if you put it underground for fifty years, becomes interesting [laughter]. You just take a shot of people walking, and that's enough: the weight of history is so incredible.

MacDonald:

When

No. 4 (Bottoms)