Fear: Trump in the White House

“Bob, you threatened the president of the United States with a grand jury subpoena when he’s not a target. And barely a subject. He’s essentially a goddamn witness. And I’m going to tell the judge that. So he has no criminal liability as of March 5, 2018,” the date they were meeting. “Nothing. And I’m going to tell the judge I’m not going to let you play gotcha. I’m not going to have you start testing the recollection of this president over something that—there is no crime. And Bob, I’ve asked you. You’re the one that wanted to engage. Talk about reciprocity. You guys tell me where the collusion is. And don’t give me that chickenshit meeting in June,” Dowd said, referring to Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting with a Russian lawyer in Trump Tower.

“That’s a nothing. There’s no collusion. And the obstruction? It’s a joke. Obstruction’s a joke. Flynn? I mean, Yates and Comey didn’t think he lied. And by the way, he told—in the memo of the White House counsel, he told them the agents had said they closed his file. I mean, Flynn believed that he had no jeopardy. Yeah. None.”

Dowd continued. “I can’t wait to read your papers. Well, my papers are going first. And by the way, just give me the subpoena. I’ll take it.”

“John,” Mueller said, “I’m not trying to threaten you. I’m just thinking of the possibilities here.”

Dowd pivoted to the good-old-boy approach. “The other possibility is, give me the questions. We have a relationship of mutual trust. We’ve trusted you guys. You’ve trusted us. And we’ve never failed you. Bob, isn’t really the important thing that you get whatever the truth is? And you’ve got us working for you.”

Dowd decided to take an extraordinary step. “I have no secrets with you guys,” Dowd said. “I’m going to tell you about my conversation with the president of the United States on the subject of testimony.” He mentioned three of the questions he had taken Trump through up in the White House residence. On the third he had no clue. “He just made something up. That’s his nature.”

Dowd realized he had Mueller’s full attention.

“Jay,” he said to Sekulow, “you play the president. I’ll play Mueller. Okay?” They would role-play what Dowd had witnessed with the president. “Let’s talk about Comey.” Dowd asked about one of Trump’s Comey conversations. Sekulow’s answer was classic Trump—an answer spun out of thin air, with contradictions, made-up stuff, anger. A perfect performance. A perfect Trump.

“Gotcha! Gotcha, 1001!” Dowd said slamming the table, referring to the section of the U.S. Code that deals with false statements. “Gotcha, 1001!”

Dowd asked another simple question of Sekulow, still playing Trump.

“I don’t know,” Sekulow said. “I don’t know. I don’t know.”

“Jay,” Dowd said, “how many times did he say I don’t know when we talked to him?”

“Oh, a dozen, twenty.”

“Bob,” Dowd said to Mueller, “here’s my point. You’re asking me to sit next to a president who’ll get to the third question, screw it up and thereafter, because I’m going to counsel him, he just doesn’t know and he doesn’t remember. So he’s going to say I don’t remember 20 times. And I’m telling you, Bob, he doesn’t remember. And by the way, if you’d like I will get General Kelly in here to tell you he doesn’t remember. And the reason he doesn’t remember is very simple. One, these facts and these events are of little moment in his life.” Most had taken place early in his presidency.

“All of a sudden he’s the boss. But he’s getting information from all quarters, including the media every day. That is like tonnage. And the fact is, I don’t want him looking like an idiot. And I’m not going to sit there and let him look like an idiot. And you publish that transcript, because everything leaks in Washington, and the guys overseas are going to say, I told you he was an idiot. I told you he was a goddamn dumbbell. What are we dealing with that idiot for? He can’t even remember X, Y, Z with respect to his FBI director.”

Dowd was aware that he had illustrated the president was “clearly disabled.”

“John, I understand,” Mueller said.

“Well, Bob, what do you want to know? Give me one question that no one has answered.”

“Well, I want to know if he had corrupt intent.”

“Bob, do you think he’s going to say yes? Because on his behalf, I’m telling you no. And if you want me to get an affidavit from the president that he had no corrupt intent, I’ll give it to you.”

“Let me think about it,” Mueller said. “I hate to think that you would be playing us.”

“Wait a minute,” Dowd said. “Give me a fucking break. I’ve got a track record here that is unimpeachable. You ask Jim Quarles if I’ve ever played him. Is there anything that I’ve ever said to you that wasn’t correct?”

No, Quarles answered. “John’s one of the best lawyers we deal with.”

Dowd began to think that Mueller didn’t know the facts of the case.

Under the joint defense agreement with some 37 witnesses, Dowd had received debriefings from the lawyers for them.

“Did anyone lie?” Dowd asked.

“No,” Mueller said.

“Did anyone destroy documents?”