Хакеры сновидений: Архив 7-9

whom, I can guarantee, don Juan never met. Don Juan Matus was exclusively interested in the perpetuation of his lineage of

shamans. He had four disciples who remain to this day. He had others who left with him. Don Juan was not interested in

teaching his knowledge; he taught it to his disciples in order to continue his lineage. Due to the fact that they cannot continue don

Juan“s lineage, his four disciples have been forced to disseminate his ideas.

The concept of a teacher who teaches his knowledge is part of our cognitive system but it isn“t part of the cognitive system

of the shamans of ancient Mexico. To teach was absurd for them. To transmit his knowledge to those who were going to

perpetuate their lineage was a different matter.

The fact that there are a number of individuals who insist in using my name or don Juan“s name is simply an easy maneuver

to benefit themselves without much effort.

Q: Let“s consider the meaning of the word “spirituality“ to be a state of consciousness in which human beings are fully

capable of controlling the potentials of the species, something achieved by transcending the simple animal condition

through a hard psychic, moral and intellectual training. Do you agree with this assertion? How is don Juan“s world

integrated into this context?

A: For don Juan Matus, a pragmatic and extremely sober shaman, “spirituality“ was an empty ideality, an assertion without basis

that we believe to be very beautiful because it is encrusted with literary concepts and poetic expressions, but which never goes

beyond that.

Shamans like don Juan are essentially practical. For them there only exists a predatory universe in which intelligence or

awareness is the product of life and death challenges. He considered himself a navigator of infinity and said that in order to

navigate into the unknown like a shaman does, one needs unlimited pragmatism, boundless sobriety and guts of steel.

In view of all this, don Juan believed that “spirituality“ is simply a description of something impossible to achieve within the

patterns of the world of everyday life, and it is not a real way of acting.

Q: You have pointed out that your literary activity, as well as Taisha Abelar“s and Florinda Donner-Grau“s, is the result

of don Juan“s instructions. What is the objective of this?

A: The objective of writing those books was given by don Juan. He asserted that even if one is not a writer one still can write,

but writing is transformed from a literary action into a shamanistic action. What decides the subject and the development of a

book is not the mind of the writer but rather a force that the shamans consider the basis of the universe, and which they call

intent. It is intent which decides a shaman“s production, whether it be literary or of any other kind.

According to don Juan, a practitioner of shamanism has the duty and the obligation of saturating himself with all the

information available. The work of shamans is to inform themselves thoroughly about everything that could possibly be related to

their topic of interest. The shamanistic act consists of abandoning all interest in directing the course the information takes. Don

Juan used to say, “The one who arranges the ideas that spring from such a well of information is not the shaman, it is intent. The

shaman is simply an impeccable conduit.“ For don Juan writing was a shamanistic challenge, not a literary task.

Q: If you allow me to assert the following, your literary work presents concepts that are closely related with Oriental

philosophical teachings, but it contradicts what is commonly known about the Mexican indigenous culture. What are the

similarities and the differences between one and the other?

A: I don“t have the slightest idea. I“m not learned in either one of them. My work is a phenomenological report of the cognitive

world to which don Juan Matus introduced me. From the point of view of phenomenology as a philosophical method, it is

impossible to make assertions that are related to the phenomenon under scrutiny. Don Juan Matus“ world is so vast, so

mysterious and contradictory, that it isn“t suitable for an exercise in linear exposition; the most one can do is describe it, and that

alone is a supreme effort.

Q: Assuming that don Juan“s teachings have become part of occult literature, what“s your opinion about other teachings

in this category, for example Masonic philosophy, Rosicrucianism, Hermeticism and disciplines such as the Cabala, the

Tarot and Astrology when we compare them to nagualism? Have you ever had any contact with or maintain any contact

with any of these or with their devotees?

A: Once again, I don“t have the slightest idea of what the premises are, or the points of view and subjects of such disciplines.

Don Juan presented us with the problem of navigating into the unknown, and this takes all of our available effort.