Хакеры сновидений: Архив 7-9

Q: Do some of the concepts of your work, such as the assemblage point, the energetic filaments that make up the universe, the world of the inorganic beings, intent, stalking and dreaming, have an equivalent in Western knowledge?

For example, there are some people who consider that man seen as a luminous egg is an expression of the aura

A: As far as I know, nothing of what don Juan taught us seems to have a counterpart in Western knowledge.

Once, when don Juan was still here, I spent a whole year in search of gurus, teachers and wise men to give me an inkling of

what they were doing. I wanted to know if there was something in the world of that time similar to what don Juan said and did.

My resources were very limited and they only took me to meet the established masters who had millions of followers and,

unfortunately, I couldn“t find any similarity.

Q: Concentrating specifically on your literary work, your readers find different Carlos Castanedas. We first find a

somewhat incompetent Western scholar, permanently baffled at the power of old Indians like don Juan and don Genaro

(mainly in The Teachings Of Don Juan, A Separate Reality, A Journey To Ixtlan, Tales Of Power, and The Second Ring

Of Power.) Later we find an apprentice versed in shamanism (in The Eagle“s Gift, The Fire from Within, The Power of

Silence and, particularly, The Art Of Dreaming.) If you agree with this assessment, when and how did you cease to be

one to become the other?

A: I don“t consider myself a shaman, or a teacher, or an advanced student of shamanism; nor do I consider myself an

anthropologist or a social scientist of the Western world. My presentations have all been descriptions of a phenomenon which is

impossible to discern under the conditions of the linear knowledge of the Western world. I could never explain what don Juan

was teaching me in terms of cause and effect. There was no way to foretell what he was going to say or what was going to

happen. Under such circumstances, the passage from one state to another is subjective and not something elaborated, or

premeditated, or a product of wisdom.

Q: One can find episodes in your literary work that are truly incredible for the Western mind. How could someone who“s

not an initiate verify that all those “separate realities“ are real, as you claim?

A: It can be verified very easily by lending one“s whole body instead of only one“s intellect. One cannot enter don Juan“s world

intellectually, like a dilettante seeking fast and fleeting knowledge. Nor, in don Juan“s world, can anything be verified absolutely.

The only thing we can do is arrive at a state of increased awareness that allows us to perceive the world around us in a more

inclusive manner. In other words, the goal of don Juan“s shamanism is to break the parameters of historical and daily perception

and to perceive the unknown. That“s why he called himself a navigator of infinity. He asserted that infinity lies beyond the

parameters of daily perception. To break these parameters was the aim of his life. Because he was an extraordinary shaman, he

instilled that same desire in all four of us. He forced us to transcend the intellect and to embody the concept of breaking the

boundaries of historical perception.

Q: You assert that the basic characteristic of human beings is to be “perceivers of energy.“ You refer to the movement of

the assemblage point as something imperative to perceiving energy directly. How can this be useful to a man of the 21st

century? According to the concept previously defined, how can the attainment of this goal help one“s spiritual

improvement?

A: Shamans like don Juan assert that all human beings have the capacity to see energy directly as it flows in the universe. They

believe that the assemblage point, as they call it, is a point that exists in man“s total sphere of energy. In other words, when a

shaman perceives a man as energy that flows in the universe, he sees a luminous ball. In that luminous ball, the shaman can see

a point of greater brilliance located at the height of the shoulder blades, approximately an arm“s length behind them. Shamans

maintain that perception is assembled at this point; that the energy that flows in the universe is transformed here into sensory

data, and that the sensory data is later interpreted, giving as a result the world of everyday life. Shamans assert that we are

taught to interpret, and therefore we are taught to perceive.

The pragmatic value of perceiving energy directly as it flows in the universe for a man of the 21st century or a man of the

1st century is the same. It allows him to enlarge the limits of his perception and to use this enhancement within his realm. Don

Juan said that to see directly the wonder of the order and the chaos of the universe would be extraordinary.

Q: You have recently presented a physical discipline called Tensegrity. Can you explain what is it exactly? What is its

goal? What spiritual benefit can a person who practices it individually get?